The Sylvan political centre ground debate considered the following motion:
This house believes Labour occupy the political centre ground.
The debate took place on Monday 4th March. Mike Douse proposed the motion and Peter Hulme Cross opposed it.
The proposition arguing that Labour occupy the political centre ground
The proposer opened by referencing his time knocking on doors during the 1945 election when the people ‘hated’ Churchill. They had experienced the Depression, and believed that the State could run things. Ordinary, decent people not interested in politics occupied the centre ground – and they would vote for a socialist Britain. (Of course Churchill resurrected himself by 1951 in an alcoholic haze.) Harold Wilson also occupied it, as politics oscillated in the ‘swinging 60s’. Politicians always try to take the centre ground. Thatcher dragged it to the right, and chose weak opponents. Blair seized it again, until 2010 in a close election where even the Liberal Democrats had a role. The centre ground was a false consciousness, with a belief that austerity was necessary and blaming Labour for the US housing crisis. This led to low interest rates and a smaller State, which benefited the few rich. Health declined, schools crumbled and the devolved nations didn’t receive enough cash.
Now Labour holds the centre ground. Blair went to war, not centrist. We have failure by the government, and Rishi Sunak called for unity against extremism. Labour has no policies, but a clear policy not to be clear! The people lack interest in politics. Each election I think Labour will go to the centre then enact socialist policies, and get disappointed. Labour has the general support of ordinary, decent people, which wasn’t the case under Corbyn. I don’t believe the 20-point lead in the polls. No one else in the centre – the Conservatives offer dog-whistle politics and tax cuts for the rich.
The opposition against the political centre ground debate motion
The opposer agreed with the definition of the centre ground as what ordinary, decent people care about, and gets them voting. The Labour website has five missions. First, build more homes. Yet no government for 20 years has hit their targets. Second, Great British Energy including wind, solar and nuclear. They should have started nuclear 20 years ago, we need net zero by 2050. Wind turbines last only 25 years, and then need replacing. Third, get the NHS back on its feet. This will require settling with doctors and other groups, meaning more cash poured in from taxpayers. Fourth, take back our streets. Yet adding more police is difficult. Fifth, create a modern child care system through nurseries and primary care. The State is the last thing I want looking after my child. School should be a choice, and taking away tax breaks from private schools reduces this. Removing non-domicile (non-dom) tax status means the footballers will leave.
Socialist dogma underlies the Labour positions, dressed up to look pretty. They will nationalise the railways, given the unions control them. Workers need raises, and the taxpayers will pay. Is this the centre ground? Yes, ordinary people if asked would agree, but the centre ground moves as the proposer said. 20-year olds care about different things to those in their 60s, and rural versus urban. People want low taxes, so they can spend more of their own money, feel better off and have a lower cost of living. Yet Labour have nothing in their manifesto about the cost of living. The Conservatives have become Labour. We have the highest taxes in 70 years, a large public sector and low growth. If Labour get in, it will be more of the same, but worse! They don’t know how to grow the economy and want to redistribute wealth. Wealth has to be created by the private sector, but Labour will tax it.
Floor speeches from the audience of the political centre ground debate
Floor speakers ranged widely over the topic. Mainstream people now get dragged into politics. We have a low wage, low standard of living economy. The centre ground is like shifting sand, it’s the Establishment that influences policy. Our values should prevail, not the economy. The UK’s two party system traps it by reducing choice, relative to e.g. Germany with more parties. We need proportional representation, and a new party that delivers on their promises. Both political parties act like each other and say what people want to hear. Keir Starmer – my MP, but hopeless. Across the world, politics has shifted to the right, such as in US and Brazil.
Any successful party derives from the centre ground. We need the least worst option, and Labour represents the centre. Yet would Starmer have founded the NHS? Where’s the plan to tax the rich to reduce the cost of living? The left / right / centre model is totally inadequate in today’s circumstances, but nothing better comes to mind. You can only sell a public asset like council houses once.
The opposer’s rebuttal
In rebuttal, the opposer lamented the sameness of the two large parties. I haven’t a clue where we are headed. Turnout matters in elections – George Galloway elected with only 40% turnout. Labour, who position themselves in the centre, may win. But that’s because people are fed up with the Tories. They mismanaged the economy for 14 years, but would that improve under Labour? Labour do not understand business, and their front bench has no experience running ministries. Blair hoodwinked everyone, capturing the centre ground, but ended up miles from the centre. Post elections, Labour’s socialist instincts will come to the fore. Decent ordinary people want lower taxes and a non-intrusive State.
The proposer’s closing speech
In closing, the proposer began with an image of George Galloway as a grinning Cheshire cat. We have a Bill or Ben question from so many speakers. Whether parties are good or bad is not the point. The opposer doesn’t talk about what people care about – housing, railways, the environment, etc. This debate does not depend on which party you support. Does what Labour espouse matter to the average person? Rachel Reeves has said they won’t raise taxes. Labour aim to convince that they have plans, yet this will take time. Labour have convinced average people. Yeats wrote the centre cannot hold, leading to anarchy.
Result: the political centre ground debate motion carried
In the final vote, the Sylvans concluded through the debate that Labour occupy the political centre ground.
Please see summaries of earlier Sylvan debates here.
